why heavier bullets for .223

D*nn0001 said: I am new to reloading and so far I have stuck to .223 with 60gr. Nosler Ballistic tips for bullets. My rifles are both 1:9 twist so I could fire a heavier bullet. I am thinking of getting a Stevens 200 bolt action rifle to accurize which also has a 1:9 twist for my .223's. My question is: what is the advantage of using a heavier bullet? Are the heavier bullets more accurate. Since the COL for .223 is 2.50 to just under 2.56, doesn't the bullet protrude into the case too much? Wouldn't this cause too much pressure? So why the heavier bullets?

s*nray said: "...why the heavier bullets..." Better accuracy at long range. Heavy bullets work better at long range than light bullets. Also lets you load bullets that are suitable for larger game. Not legal for big game in AB though.

G*nderite said: Ignore the COL in the book. that was with their rifle, not yours. Load the buillet as far out as you can get, and experiement with touching, 10 tou off and 20 tou off the rifling. Some rifles have deeper throats to accomodate the longer bullets. My rifles withthe 80 Sierra allow the bullet to be seated only to the bottom of the neck. I shoot them back to 1000 yards and compete with 155 bullets in 308. If you are only shooting real short range - say 300 yards, try the 68 and 69 match bullets.

s*skcop said: I sure notice the heavier bullets hit harder on game. Especially at longer ranges.

b*ltfed said: The heavier bullets generally have better ballistic coefficients, which lend to less wind drift. They are not necessarily 'more accurate' than any other bullets, but practically speaking they are.

L*ckyLuc82 said: Here is a question that just popped into my head, would a 68gr be enough for deer?

srt4*2nv said: The main reason for using heavier bullets as mentioned by beltfed is a higher ballistic coefficient this allows the bullet to not be effected by wind as much. Using a heavier bullet will also retain more energy down range then the lighter offerings making longer shots on game possible. "...why the heavier bullets..." Better accuracy at long range. Heavy bullets work better at long range than light bullets. Also lets you load bullets that are suitable for larger game. Not legal for big game in AB though. The bullet weight has no effect on accuracy a rifle that shoots 55gr like a laser may not shoot as well with a 75gr....heavier does not always mean more accurate.

srt4*2nv said: Here is a question that just popped into my head, would a 68gr be enough for deer? depending on bullet construction yes provided its a TSX or Nosler Partition and shot placement is bang on you would be ok. Would I do it? hell ya I plan on taking a white tail with my .22-250 using 55gr TSX's one day. But I will only take a perfect broad side shot and I will continue to practice calling my shots at various distances to a max of 350yds for a .223 I would only go 200-250yds max. Todd Bartell took a white tail last year with a 45gr TSX I believe pics of the damage are around here somewhere.

F*ssteel said: Here is a question that just popped into my head, would a 68gr be enough for deer? Plenty

G*nderite said: In discussion with Sierra one day about 222 on deer (I have a combo gun -12ga over 222Rem) they said their best deer bullet is the 69 gr match bullet. My rifle would not stabalize that bullet, so next best was the 60gr flat base hollow point. he told me that a hollow point bullet has more penetration than a soft point. This struck me as counter-intuitive, so I soaked a couple of Toronto phone books in a pail of water over night and them shot them. he was right. the soft point opened up right away. I never did use that gun, but would not hestitate, having tried it. I did shoot fairly large kangaroos with a 223 at about 100 to 200 yards using Hornady 55gr soft points. I was surprised to see that they all exited on the far side, leaving a fist-sized hole. So yes, I think a 223 would work just fine on a deer, so long as large bones are avoided.

s*skcop said: Here is a question that just popped into my head, would a 68gr be enough for deer? I let go on a rogue black bear with a 69 grain nosler and it decked him with one shot from about 65 yards. Bullet hit the base of the neck/upper chest and exitted.

L*ckyLuc82 said: Nice, guesss I have 7lbs of powder, 1000 primers, tons of empty cartridges, gonna go pick up some noslers and start working on a load, should be ready by deer season!

s*skcop said: I have tested the Nosler custom competition 69 grain .224 bullets in wet phone books, etc. and found that they penetrate very well, mushroom to over 2x diameter and stay together quite well. I doubt that is what their designers had in mind, but they have excellent terminal ballistics. Sorry for hijacking the thread.

J*rdan Smith said: Using a heavier bullet will also retain more energy down range then the lighter offerings making longer shots on game possible. And even more important than energy, a heavy, high B.C. bullet retains the velocity, much better than lighter bullets, that is necessary for bullet expansion that you want when hitting animals at long range.

HKM*rk23 said: Here is a question that just popped into my head, would a 68gr be enough for deer? Yep, some CGN hunters do get off on tracking wounded animals :dancingbanana:, so a 22 cal fits their style. A good belly shot should improve distance.

D*nn0001 said: I am just out to shoot paper targets at 300 yards from a bench rest as I am not a hunter. I am still a bit concerned about how deep the bullet has to seat in the casing. I usually crimp my bullets but I guess that would not be necessary in a bolt action rifle. Anyone using the Stevens 200 or inexpensive Marlin rifles perhaps with a better trigger?

D*nn0001 said: While I was thinking about the Marlin (XS7) for less than $400.00 I read a number of reviews and they were very good. Perhaps I should just stay at 60gr. Nosler bullets for my .223 rifles and get a Marlin .243 for long range target shooting. Just a thought. Sorry to stray off the topic I started.

s*skcop said: Yep, some CGN hunters do get off on tracking wounded animals :dancingbanana:, so a 22 cal fits their style. A good belly shot should improve distance. Oh here we go again ... Yes we all know that there are calibers that provide more energy, etc. blah, blah, blah. Like a deer has never been wounded with a .30-06 and had to be tracked ... No one is saying that the .223 is the best deer cartridge here.

HKM*rk23 said: Oh here we go again ... Yes we all know that there are calibers that provide more energy, etc. blah, blah, blah. Like a deer has never been wounded with a .30-06 and had to be tracked ... Speaking of wounded dears,,:D.

l*nnard said: so its sort of likr throwing a golf ball and a ping pong ball? heavier will go farther, hit harder and be effected less by wind? what about bullet stability? will a heavier bullet stabilise after a lighter one?

G*nderite said: Don't worry about seating bullet deep. Start at the Start load and work up.

m*nitou210 said: I see fellows at range shooting 50 to 55gr bullets out of 223,22-250, and 204 s shooting smaller bullets driving them really hard, thinking they will shoot so flat, well some shoot some very good groups at 100y but when we have little shoots at 300y for toonies or loonies those 50gr bullets don't run with the 223Rem with 69 to 90gr bullets. there groups are usually triple the size what the 223 with heavy bullets will do.There is a member with a 22-250 and 1/8 twist when he gets a load worked out. He will run with the 223 and even better out farther manitou

srt4*2nv said: so its sort of likr throwing a golf ball and a ping pong ball? heavier will go farther, hit harder and be effected less by wind? what about bullet stability? will a heavier bullet stabilise after a lighter one? Stability mostly comes from the twist rate of the barrel the heavier/longer the bullet the faster twist you need to stabilize the bullet.

D*nn0001 said: I would like to try some loads with the heavier bullets but where can I get them? I am thinking of trying some 68 to 70gr. bullets. What brand would work best with my Lee dies? Most places say they are on backorder. I hate seeing that word.

D*nn0001 said: Well, I ordered some 69gr. Sierra HPBT bullets from Cabela's (.223 caliber) I am using Hodgdon H4895 powder and CCI #400 primers. I was wondering why the Hodgdon reloading data sheet says the COL must be 2.235? I would think that a person would want a COL of 2.25 or even 2.26 maximum. Cripe, with 24 grains of my powder (minimum load ), it just about comes up to the neck of the casing. Wouldn't that seated bullet actually compress the powder at their suggested COL? Should I get a powder that doesn't require so much in the case? Perhaps H335 or BL-C(2) but the velocity really drops off.

rnbr*-shooter said: Denn0001, nice choice of powder primer and bullets, that ought to work very well for you. What kind of brass are you using? (there is a variation in internal capacity between different kinds). If you can tolerate the minor handling hassles of using a short-stick powder in a .223 (watch for occasional bridging in the case neck or powder thrower, and also powder spills from nearly-full cases), you should be happy to know that you are using components that are as good as any out there. If you don't want to put up with those hassles, you can use a ball powder such as H335 BL(C)-2, WC748 etc. Personally, I would use H4895. You'll almost certainly end up with a compressed load of powder by the time you work things up. Nothing wrong with this at all. Just be careful when you're handling the charged cases to avoid spilling powder. Magazine length is 2.26". I wonder if the Hodgdon data sheet that you are referring to mentions that the load was developed in a particular bolt action rifle? As Ganderite advised, disregard magazine length recommendations, load your ammo fairly long but just clear of the rifling (anywhere from .010" to .050" off the rifling is good to start), and start by working up your powder charge. Once that is reasonably consistent, perhaps do some minor experimentation with bullet seating depth.

D*nn0001 said: Thanks rnbra-shooter. I am not sure how much headspace exists in my Mini14. I guess I could find out by searching the web. I am planning on getting a bolt action Stevens 200 or a Marlin XS7 with the idea of accurizing it. I will not be using the 69gr. loads in my M4 just the 60gr. and standard 55gr. My idea is to do some accurate shooting out to 300 yards and that is where the 69gr. and a bolt action rifle come in. ( with a decent scope )

rnbr*-shooter said: Thanks rnbra-shooter. I am not sure how much headspace exists in my Mini14. I guess I could find out by searching the web. I assume you mean "throat length" (which affects where you seat a bullet) and not "headspace" (which affects how the brass fits the chamber). For your M4 and your Mini 14, load to a length that fits your magazines. You can either use the industry standard 2.26", or you can try a longer length so long as you reliably fit *your* magazines. I would suggest at least trying a few magazine-length 69s from your two semiautos. They might shoot well enough to make it worthwhile using 69s for all your .223s. Also, if your Stevens arrives before your Sierras, try the Nosler 60 BTs in it - I would expect them to shoot very well, out to at least 600 yards. If you have several different brands of brass, you could choose to use one brand for the boltgun and the other brands for your semis. Commercial Winchester is quite good, it would be a good choice for the bolt gun. (and use disposable brass for your Mini 14, since it does such a good job of "disposing" of brass - better than thirty feet away, always into grass, every time I've fired one! ;-)

D*nn0001 said: I assume you mean "throat length" (which affects where you seat a bullet) and not "headspace" (which affects how the brass fits the chamber). For your M4 and your Mini 14, load to a length that fits your magazines. You can either use the industry standard 2.26", or you can try a longer length so long as you reliably fit *your* magazines. I would suggest at least trying a few magazine-length 69s from your two semiautos. They might shoot well enough to make it worthwhile using 69s for all your .223s. Also, if your Stevens arrives before your Sierras, try the Nosler 60 BTs in it - I would expect them to shoot very well, out to at least 600 yards. If you have several different brands of brass, you could choose to use one brand for the boltgun and the other brands for your semis. Commercial Winchester is quite good, it would be a good choice for the bolt gun. (and use disposable brass for your Mini 14, since it does such a good job of "disposing" of brass - better than thirty feet away, always into grass, every time I've fired one! ;-) Sure is nice to hear from someone who is familiar with a variety of firearms. Yes, I have been doing more research on loading with the heavier bullets and most say to seat the bullet to the magazine that will accept that particular length. I will seat the bullets to 2.25 or a bit over but I try to avoid the maximum of 2.26 as the tips of the bullets brush the magazine wall in the LAR15 mags. I had to laugh at your comment about how the Mini14 throws the brass on ejection. So true. Then the search is on in the weeds and grass or apologizing to the fellow to my right for hitting him with hot brass!! The Mini14 and the M4 are both hard on brass as they leave dents from ejection and the brass bouncing off the concrete. The M4 is a little bit more friendly as it neatly piles the brass 4 feet in front of me. I wrote to Lee Precision about crimping the bullets, which I do, and how some people say not to crimp a bullet with no cannalure. I use the Lee Factory Crimp Die which doesn't dig the brass into the bullet so I think I am good to go, Thanks again.

D*nn0001 said: It appears that Marlin does not yet produce the XS7 in .223 caliber. Smallest is .243 caliber. To bad really as the Marlin has a nicer stock although still plastic. I guess it will be the Stevens 200 in .223 for less than $400.00 The stock can always be changed later and th Stevens has very good reviews on shooting accurately right out of the box. There are numerous article on people who have accurized the Stevens 200 by simply changing out the barrel and trigger group. I don't think I would go too far in swapping stuff out. Maybe the trigger and a better stock.

rnbr*-shooter said: There are numerous article on people who have accurized the Stevens 200 by simply changing out the barrel and trigger group. I don't think I would go too far in swapping stuff out. Maybe the trigger and a better stock. I don't know what kind of stock the Stevens 200 has. the lower end Savages a number of years ago had a lightweight black plastic stock that had quite a flmisy forend. It was free floated, but so easily deflected that with the weight of the rifle on a bipod, it took only a little bit of leaning or pressure by the shooter to cause the barrel to touch the stock. Change the barrel if it doesn't shoot well enough for you; if it does shoot well enough, it doesn't need changing! I am quite happy with factory Savage triggers (mine are both 15-ish years old). Personally I wouldn't bother upgrading them, I think they are good enough to shoot in a national match quite honestly.

D*nn0001 said: The Stevens 200 stock is the only thing that got a bad review but what does a person expect for sub $400.00. Obviously the part that everyone liked was the action and the stock barrel. There was some discussion about the stock fit and how to improve on it. Most of the modifications were performed by the purchasers themselves and that's the part I liked. This is a fairly new rifle for Savage so maybe the bipod wont cause flexing but I understand what you mean. I may shoot off of sandbags but I do like my bipods.

D*nn0001 said: Here is a quote from one blog that points at what you were saying. "I got a Stevens in .223 about 2 years ago. It is an excellent rifle and quite accurate. Is now my main coyote rifle. I shoot mostly handloads and out to 300yds it does very well. Our range goes to 400 yds, mostly steel gongs past 200 yds. Great fun to shoot at 300 and watch the steel start swinging and wait for the sound to get back. The Stevens has a 1 in 9 twist, so it shoots 50-69 gr bullets very well. Only thing to watch for is the tupperware stock is flexible in the forearm, so make sure there is plenty of clearance between the barrel and the stock." So maybe a good stock will be the first thing to look at. I see your point. Now, where to find a stock?




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