Hang-fires with .300 RUM
D*ug said: So a while back I got a new (to me) rifle in .300 Remington Ultra Mag. No I do not intent to hunt with it, I just wanted to try a .300 RUM. :dancingbanana: Well, pretty much "everybody" suggests Retumbo or H1000 as the powder for this cartridge. I do not have any H1000 and have never used it, and have only a trivial amount of Retumbo. BUT the Hodgdon reloading website has recipes for IMR 4350, which I DO have. I loaded up a few rounds with the minumum load (since the .300 RUM has a nasty reputation for bone-crushing recoil)............and the first round (standing) was not that ignorant, so I took a couple shots off the bench. BOTH hang-fires...............:eek: Never had that experience before, and don't want to have it again. A very savvy shooter who was with me suggests that IMR 4350 is way too fast, and my CCI 250 primers not hot enough...............but anyways I guess I will pull the rest of these ones and find me some more Retumbo............ Doug
BCb*y said: they both went off? if not slight dimples? what is the headspace on the rifle?,
p-17 said: FYI, Winchester Large Rifle Magnum primers have the reputation of being the hottest primers you can buy. I'd probably use those on the Ultramag, or at least Federal 215s.
D*ug said: Yes both shots fired, and in fact both bullets hit quite close to each other on the target. But there was a definite delay between the hammer falling and the charge firing. Just milliseconds for sure, but disconcerting as hell. And not conducive to good accuracy I am certain! :p You know those two loudest sounds, the click when you expect a boom, and a boom when you expect a click? :runaway: Mix them both at the same time..........and in that order. Yes, my buddy suggested Federal 215s as a hotter primer, and I think I have some Federal Gold Match 215s here someplace. There is nothing wrong mechanically with the rifle, the original owner put about three boxes of ammo through it. But he reported that he never did get it to settle down, which he blamed on the recoil. I found out when I got it that the forward scope mount holes were off-centre, in other words a factory defect, so he was shooting a rifle with a scope off-centre to the barrel. Challenging, to say the least, if a fellow wants to shoot tight groups..........:rolleyes: The problem for sure is the load recipe, which is why I posted about it on here. Doug
N*rmB said: The problem for sure is the load recipe, which is why I posted about it on here. You are correct. You need more primer. F215, WLRM, etc. Retumbo or H1000 loads would fill your cases better. NormB
G*tehouse said: I used 82.5gr IMR 4350, Federal 215 primer and 180gr TSX bullets to shoot a 300RUM I loaded for. Substituting 180gr Hornady bullets increased the pressure, so I'd back off a grain for cup and core bullets. 3250fps
Cr*shman said: It was actually rather neat to watch, Doug pulled the trigger........and then BANG! I fired the rifle from a standing position before Doug discovered the hang fire situation, and did not notice anything strange, but I think I might have flinched, just a little, in anticipation of the recoil.:redface: And no, I am not the savvy shooter Doug made mention of!:)
D*ug said: Thanks Clarke! From the Hodgdon website, their recommended max load with a 180 is 81.0 gr of IMR 4350 for 3071 fps and pressure at 63,200: 180 GR. SPR SPBT IMR IMR 4350 .308" 3.530" 76.0 2869 51,800 PSI 81.0 3071 63,200 PSI But the website figures are generally very conservative, in my experience. I think the key thing is the primer I was using, ie CCI 250s, plus I was on the low end on the powder charges.......... I do have some of the 180 gr TSXs, and might try them...........;) Doug
D*ug said: PS) Hi there crashman! When you get off the computer can you please give me a call about that .22-250? Doug
G*tehouse said: Thanks Clarke! From the Hodgdon website, their recommended max load with a 180 is 81.0 gr of IMR 4350 for 3071 fps and pressure at 63,200: 180 GR. SPR SPBT IMR IMR 4350 .308" 3.530" 76.0 2869 51,800 PSI 81.0 3071 63,200 PSI But the website figures are generally very conservative, in my experience. I think the key thing is the primer I was using, ie CCI 250s, plus I was on the low end on the powder charges.......... I do have some of the 180 gr TSXs, and might try them...........;) Doug I think 81 gr for a regular bullet is about right for IMR 4350. The TSX's keep pressure down. I also think it's your primer. Big cases like the RUM are in Fed 215 and Winchester Magnum primer territory
g*trdun said: This situation brings up something that I've wondered about. We can certainly learn about various powders from the manufacturer's website, buring rates, etc. We can also follow loading guidelines within the bullet manufacturer's reloading manuals. But where is it that you guys learn about the fact that say a WLRM primer is hotter than a CCI250, or a Fed215, etc.? Are there any websites or articles that discuss the minor differences between primer manufacturers?
G*tehouse said: There are some articles I've read. Generaly the consensus is the WInchester magnum primer is the hottest, followed by Fed 215. The Fed 215 was specifically developed for the 378 Weatherby....Or some other giant Weatherby cartridge.
D*ug said: That is one of the great things about this site (when you can get away from the kids and wannabes). I am always learning new stuff here from lots of folks! And some of it is even true............:p Thanks Clarke! Doug
*ndy said: I don't agree about the CCI Magnum primer not being "hot" enough - there's just no evidence to suggest that's true. I use them extensively in cases just as large as the 300 RUM (my 8mm ARP and a 6.5-300 Win Mag) and in -15C weather with a very slow Ball Powder (US869), they both go off every time without a hitch, and those are the absolute worst conditions for a primer to deal with. I would look at: - contaminated primers (oil, case lube, etc.), or a bad batch?; - too low a loading density; or - too low a pressure to give a good burn. Load up five each with the CCI 250, and with the WLRM primer - same IMR4350 load. Load up a few with a full-house IMR4350 load the same way. That will tell you a lot.
J*hn Y Cannuck said: I also question the primers. I doubt the CCI is not hot enough, although I have read that Winchester is hotter. There may be other things at work here. How old are those primers Doug? I know, they don't age, but, old stuff some times gets contaminated. Check those flash holes!
D*ug said: Primers are good, and not contaminated. Flash holes are clear. Once I get me some Retumbo I will report back.............so does anybody have some Retumbo they want to sell/swap? Doug
d*zzy dan 1 said: Primers are good, and not contaminated. Flash holes are clear. Once I get me some Retumbo I will report back.............so does anybody have some Retumbo they want to sell/swap? Doug Thats what I am looking for also for my 300RUM.DAN>>>:D
RR said: I also question the primers. I doubt the CCI is not hot enough, although I have read that Winchester is hotter. There may be other things at work here. How old are those primers Doug? I know, they don't age, but, old stuff some times gets contaminated. Check those flash holes! Are you talking about Doug or Reloading components?:D
g*trdun said: Minimum loads in large capacity cartridges will often "hang-fire" regardless of primer. The big loads of powder require a lot of pressure for good ignition and a clean burn. Try bringing the charge up a few grains and try again. As for primer brisance the lists usually show Fed 215 as the "hottest" large rifle primer followed in order by WLRM, CCI 250, Rem 9 1/2M, WLR, Fed 210, CCI BR2, CCI 200, and finally Rem 9 1/2 Ok, so this may sound stupid, but the first four are all classified as "magnum" primers, so why would a person choose a Rem 9 1/2M instead of a Fed 215? Wouldn't it stand to reason to go with the hottest? In my load delvelopment for my .338WM , I noticed better grouping when I switched to WLRM from CCI250. And according to Boo's list, those two are neck to neck, but something was obviously different.
J*hn Y Cannuck said: [/u] Are you talking about Doug or Reloading components?:D No Comment! :D
D*ug said: Thanks 'Boo. I did actually load up nine rounds with progressively more powder, three at a time and one grain at a time. But The "hottest" of them is only three grains more powder than the ones I was shooting. Hmm, it is a nice morning here, maybe I will head over to the range for some more experimenting..... Doug PS to Rich) MY flash hole is NEVER clear, back blast area is ALWAYS dangerous.....
R*Pete said: You definately need magnum primers for the quantity of powder.
D*ug said: back to RePete, I was using a magnum primer (CCI 250s).......... Doug