Bluedot.............in rifle cases

hs4570 said: Several years ago there was a gent on one of the American reloading forums By the handle "SEAFIRE" who advocated the useage of Blue dot powder for useage in rifle cases from .223 right up to .338 mag. His premise for these loads was to make reduced loads for cartridges so that youngsters and ladies might benefit from these loads in big bore rifles and not have to buy a smaller calibre for them that they would perhaps out grow and as they developed recoil tolerance they could eventually shoot full power loads in this same rifle. Most of his .30 cal loads approximated regular 30-30 loads, 150 gr. @2300 fps +/-.........or less if you wanted down to about say 1800 fps... these also served as Small game rounds in some calibres. Has any one on this board heard of this, and if so tried it in any calibers as I have and if so, did you have sucess also... plse advise what cal .etc. for my information. If not.......is there any interest in my results as I'm sure some must use reduced loads with pistol/shotgun powders....... Tried it in .222/ 223/ 243/ 308/30-06 and .338 mag./.444 Marlin........ ........did the unique /reddot/ Imr 4227/Imr4895/Imr4198 etc reduced loads route years ago.....and just want more bluedot info if available thanx..... hs4570.............your mileage may vary

J*hn Y Cannuck said: I think seafire is still out there, over at accuratereloading.com I've used bullseye to make up some grouse loads but that's about it for me. For most rifle cartridges, about six grains will do for a 25 yard quiet grouse load. NOTE: six grains of bullseye is a dangerous load in some pistol size cartridges.

B*omer said: I've tried lots of formulas for reduced loads in standard cartridges, although I can't say that I've used Blue Dot for anything but hot .357 loads. My favorites for reduced loads are 2400 and SR4759.

762n*to said: Older Speer book has reduced loads for most calibers, any one in particular you had in mind? Andy

pr*sper said: Yeah, I have several lbs of blue dot for the express purpose of reduced noise .222 and 22 Hornet loads. Never heard of anyone using them in anything much bigger

P*paneil said: Works great in .444 marlin plinking cast loads (around 20 gr.) :D

t*dbartell said: I load Bluedot in my 223, Ill post up the data and velocities when I get home in a bit

t*dbartell said: 40 gr. bullets - Barnes Varmin-A-Tor, 5.0 grs. Bluedot, CCI 400 ~ 1450 fps avg. - Barnes Varmin-A-Tor @ 2.176", 12.0 grs. Bluedot, WSR ~ 2990 fps - Hornady Vmax @ 2.28", 12.0 grs. Bluedot, WSR ~ 2978 fps 50 gr. bullets - Speer TnT @ 2.23", 12.0 grs. Bluedot, WSR ~ 2729 fps - Hornady SXSP @ 2.24", 12.0 grs. Bluedot, WSR ~ 2735 fps

hs4570 said: Thanx all for your input........ as stated I've tried it in .222 .223 .243..308..30-06..338 mag...444 marlin with good results.......happy to hear about other loads/success in these calibers too ....and was hopeing to get any info available on any calibres I had't tested yet also..... Mr Seafires loading premise was to fill the case of choice with Bluedot powder...weigh the charge and then start loading at 20% of this total weight and continue on up to 60% (max)........ usually at the 60% mark he stopped as he (1.) only wanted reduced /accurate/safe loads for kids/ladies etc. (2.) did load until a primer popped and then backed off two grains and gave this load as his recommended top load for safety and long brass life. Example of Mr. Seafires results: .223 rem. 35 gr V max in 26' bl. Start 4.0 gr.....1284 fps.............Max at 14.0 gr......3518 fps 45 gr vmax. start 4.0 gr......1161 fps.............Max at 14.0 gr......3375 fps 50 gr Sierra SMP start 4.0 gr.......1064fps.............Max at 14.0 gr.......3038 fps 55 gr Winchester fmj start 4.0 gr.......896 fps.............Max at 14.0gr........2915 fps (for .222 rem...drop one grain from .223 max) In my .222 Brno "fox"..23.5 in. bl. 12.0 gr. Bluedot.......sierra 40.0 h.p......3,050 fps ..3 shots ...0.80 in/100yds 11.4 gr...................Hornady 45gr "hornet"...2870...3 shots....1.20 in. 10.5 gr...................Rem. 50 gr. .........2535 fps.....3 shots....1.60 in. 6.0 gr Bluedot..........Hornady 45 gr.......1825 fps.....3 shots/ 75 yds 0.60 in. ...........will add some more calibres as i can.........thx. hs4570.......your mileage may vary

hs4570 said: Mr Seafires .243 loads .......26 inch Winchester Varmint Tested from 8.0gr. (20%) to 24 gr, (60 %) BLUEDOT Powder.. 58 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip OAL:67.60 mm 8.0 gr......1785 fps........to 22.0 gr MAX....3342 fps 60 gr Sierra h.p.......OAL..67.50 mm 8.0 gr......1675 fps........to 22.0 gr Max....3227 fps 75 gr. Hornady Hollow Pt....OAL: 69.50 mm 8.0 gr......1279 fps.........to 22.0 gr. MAX...2958 fps 80 gr winchester sp OAL: 69.50 mm 8.0 gr.....1340 fps...........to 22.0 gr. MAX ..2826 fps . 95 gr Nosler Ballistic tip COL: 70.50 mm 10.0 gr....1520 fps..........to22.0 gr.MAX...2581 fps 100 gr Hornady SP..OAL: 69.25 MM 11.0 Gr.....1574 fps........to 21.0 gr MAX....2512 fps 105 gr. Speer Sp....OAL:...70.50 MM 10.0 gr.....1270 fps.........to 22.0 gr MAX....2561 fps ***************************************** In my Ruger .243 ........24"heavy bl. 60 gr Sierra hp. ..22.0 gr Bluedot.......3213 fps. 3 shots/100yd...1.50' 70 gr. Hornady.....22.0 gr Bluedot.......3009 fps. 3 shots/100yd...0.85' 75 Sierra.............22.0 gr Bluedot.......2948 fps. 3shots/100 yd..1.10 ' 80 gr Speer.........20.0 gr Bluedot........2730 fps. 3shots/100yd..1.00 ' 100 Sierra Bt........21.0 gr Bluedot........2540 fps. 3shots/100yd..1.30' ..........30/30 win. next........... hs4570.................your mileage may vary

m*rcuryv8 said: The people reading this thread seem to be the ones to ask... I'm on a tite budget and only want to buy one powder to produce some light loads (I had grouse in mind) for my .308 Can anyone recomend that powder and what type of bullet to use (gr wt. , and type). maybe under 1000fps I've been scared off of experimenting because of the articles i've read about SEE. Just need some expert opinions. Thanks a lot Nic

hs4570 said: You appear to be trying to resurrect your .308 subsonic load thread from 26 august 06.......did you buy the lyman manual,......did you do the SEARCH to find out was causes SEE........did you follow any of the advice people gave you... I'm no expert so .............. ****************************** MR SEAFIRES 30/30 BLUEDOT load data 110 gr R.N. 7.0 gr. .......1162 fps .......to 18.0 gr (MAX) ...2322 fps 170 gr. Flat nose 9.0 gr.........1358 fps........to 15.0 gr ( Max)...1685 fps ........stated he got best 30/30 acuracy with the 170 gr in the 1500 to 1750 fps range...........he also tried beyond 15.0 gr with this bullet with success but did not specify how high he went....... ************************************* In my 30/30 Win AE only tried the 170 gr load at 15.0 gr for 1645 fps and got the same 2.0/ 2.5 in at 100yds it usually shoots........haven't tried it in my 340 Savage yet.... hs4570..........your mileage may vary

hs4570 said: Winchester Model 70........24 in Barrel......Rem. cases.....CCI LRPrimers 150 gr. remington spt. 21.0 gr Bluedot............2057 fps.......to 28.0 gr, MAX....2512 fps ..........stated his safe usable /max was 27.0 for longer case life........ 165 gr. Sierra sp...OAL..82.50 mm 20.0 gr Bluedot.............1852 fps.......to 26.0 gr Max.....2228 fps 180 gr Remington Sp....OAL: 80.85 mm 20.0 gr. Bluedot.............1762 fps........to 25.0 gr Max...2075 fps ************************************************** In my Ruger Mk 11 ....22 in bl....win. cases ...win LRprimers 21.0 gr. Bluedot......180 gr Imperial Rnd nose...1804 fps...3 shots/100yd @0.90 inch. 22.0 gr Bluedot......1860 fps.......3 shots/100yd...0.80 in. 23.0 gr. Bluedot...1932 fps......3 shots/100yd....1.50 in. hs 4570.......your mileage may vary

hs4570 said: Mr. Seafire didn't own a .308 ........but using his 20% to 60% weight rule.. In my Rem. 788 , 18.5 in Barrel, ivi Military case..win. lrprimers. 124 gr. Lapua (.309) fmj....21.0 gr. Bluedot...3 shots/100yds.1.10in/2298 fps 22.0.gr Bluedot.....3shots/ 100yds...1.80 in. 2368 fps 23.0 gr. Bluedot.....3 shots/ 100yds..0.90 inch...2480 fps(max) hs4570......your mileage may vary

m*rcuryv8 said: Right...good search results, or memory. In that thread I didn't get any comformation about lyman manual having the info I needed...sub-sonic loads. I wish I were in the City...I could just go down there and look at the book. Also I'm looking for a specific formula that works. I have 5 lyman manuals , amongst others, and it doesn't contain any subsonic specific data for the .308..Lyman manuals deal 80% or more data for lead alloy cast bullets and generally in velocities from 1300 fps to 2200 fps. for rifle loads. I'm quite familiar with SEE, and do know what causes it...but I'm not sure about how it translates into exact gr wt. in cases. Or what powders you can get away with reducing and which you can't. Thanks for your input...maybe this wasn't the right thread, sorry for pulling it off topic. I lost track of that thread and have gone back to it...I was just hoping for some specifics...this is what works for me kind of responce ...but I guess nothings easy is it. Nic

hs4570 said: Winchester Mod 70. 26 in barrel .338 win. mag. CCI large, (not Magnum Rifle primers) 200 gr. Speer: 25.0 gr Bluedot....2010 fps 26.0 gr...............2035 fps 27.0 gr...............2078 fps 28.0 gr...............2139 fps 29.0 gr...............2210 fps 30.0 gr...............2266 fps 31.0 gr...............2280 fps 32.0.gr...............2350 fps 33.0 gr...............2367 fps 34.0 gr...............2430 fps 35.0 gr...............2415 fps "less than 34 gr ??.but thats what it read" 36.0 gr...............2483 fps 37.0 gr...............2537 fps 38.0 gr...............2570 fps 39.0 gr... "primer blew..2627 fps" "For the 250 gr crowd" I loaded up one 250 gr. Sierra BT..35.0 gr...2265 fps" l ****************************************** In my Ruger 24 in Barrel.......Win. 338 mag cases Win Large RPrimers 6-20X Bushnell scope. 37.0 gr Bluedot........225 gr Hornady sp....3 shots /100yds.. 0.80 inch..2424,2433,2444 fps. 35.0 gr Bluedot........250 gr Hornady sp.....3 shots /100 yds..1.30 in. 2169,2132,2122 fps. 33.0 gr Bluedot........265 gr ukn(pos.Lapua or Norma) Rnd nose 3 shots /100yds..1.20 in.....1965,1952,1976 fps. hs 4570.....your mileage may vary

hs4570 said: .444 Marlin Remington brass CCI lrPrimers BLUEDOT POWDER. 200 gr xtp 15.0 gr...1474 fps..................(.max ) 24.0.gr...2127 fps 240 gr xtp 15.0 gr....1361 fps..................(max) 24.0 gr...1992 fps 265 gr Hornady FN 15.0 gr....1294 fps..................(max) 24.0 gr...1924 fps 300 gr XTP 15.0 gr...1190 fps...................(max) 24.0 gr...1823 fps ************************************** In my Marlin 22 inch Barrel .444....Rem Brass Win LRPrimers BLUEDOT 240 gr Hornady Sil-Cl.........20.0 gr. Bluedot...3 shots /100yd. 1.50 in.1550 fps Avg. 300 gr Speer..Sp..............20.0 gr. Bluedot..3shots/100yd. 1.00 in..1740 fps 330 gr NEI cast wwts....20.0 gr Bluedot...3shots/ 100yd. 2.10 in..1640 fps 310 gr Lee cast wwts..20.0gr Bluedot......3 shots /100 yd 2.50 in..1675 fps. ********************************** And as SEAFIRE himself stated .....this is for the few that would care to have this information.......fini Hs4570.........your mileage may vary

pr*sper said: Hmmm, this is a valuable thread. I m ight try and cook something up for the ole 45-70

G*thmog said: These might just be good loads for my Spanish M93 converted to .308. Are there any loads for .303 available? It might be nice to shoot a reduced load through the LE Jungle Carbine. Something inexpensive that one could shoot all day sounds quite appealing.

G*thmog said: Here's a little info I've run across but never tried: A poster at accuratereloading.com has done extensive testing on reduced loads using Blue Dot. He has data for many calibers including .223, .243, 6.5x55, and many others. These loads are not low pressure, nor low velocity, but offer a way to significantly reduce reloading costs. Yes, they can be dangerous so, you have to make sure your reloading hat is firmly in place. I noticed yesterday that he is extending his testing to include other "fast burning" powders like 4198, 5744, RL-7, etc. Here's one of his testing session as an example; Range Report - 6.5 x 55 With Blue Dot Cases: Winchester Previously Fired Brass Primer: CCI Large Rifle. OAL: 120 grain bullet: 79.56mm 129 grain bullet: 80.54mm 140 grain bullet: 80.0 mm 160 grain bullet: 79.50mm Bullets: 120 grain Sierra Match 129 grain Hornady SP 140 grain Remington SP 160 grain Sierra SMP Full Case Capacity 41 grains of Blue Dot. Because of the 30/06 and 300 Win Mag cartridges not taking the full 60% of load before having pressure signs, and even had pressure signs before 50% was reached, I chose to start lower with the 6.5 x 55. Recoil was very pleasant, especially with the lightest loads rivaling a down load 223 in a varmint weight rifle. Results are as follows: A. 120 Grain Sierra Match 1. 20 grains: 2214 fps 2. 21 grs: 2318 fps 3. 22 grs: 2382 fps 4. 23 grs: 2464 fps 5. 24 grs: 2539 fps. I chose to start at 50% of max load and see how the pressure went. I had no problems, so I did not go lower loads. This is actually the last group I did. My MAX RECOMMENDED use would be in the 23 grains range. Work up etc. B. 129 grain Hornady SP 1. 15 grs: 1738 fps 2. 16 grs: 1737 fps 3. 17 grs: 1791 fps 4. 18 grs: 1855 fps 5. 19 grs: 1953 fps 6. 20 grs: 2121 fps 7. 21grs: 2196 fps 8 22 grs: 2261 fps 9. 23 grs: 2350 fps 10. 24 grs: 2410 fps This had great results across the board, from 15 grains ( 36.5 %) to 24 grains ( 58.5 %). The 20 to 23 grain loads are very very useful, and had very low recoil. C. 140 grain Remington SP 1. 15 gr: 1690 fps 2. 16 grs: 1801 fps 3. 17 grs: 1874 fps 4. 18 grs: 1927 fps 5. 19 grs: 2023 fps 6. 20 grs: 2019 fps 7. 21 grs: 2084 fps 8. 22 grs: 2179 fps 9. 23 grs: 2245 fps 10. 24 grs: 2303 fps Everything with the 140 grain load was useful, from the 15 grains to the 24 grain loads. The Remington Corelokt is an excellent bullet for on game performance. D. 160 grain Sierra SMP ( Semi Round Nose) This was done as this is the original load in the 6.5 x 55 and it was the bullet used in Africa, that took elephants etc, in the Swedish and the 6.5 x 54 Mausers. 1. 16 grs: 1497 fps ( had blow back on primer, I racked this up to the individual case, not the load) 2. 17 grs: 1640 fps 3. 18 grs: 1730 fps 4. 19 grs: 1831 fps 5. 20 grs: 1739 fps ( Yeah I know less velocity than the 19 gr load) 6. 21 grs: 1918 fps 7. 22 grs: 2018 fps ( would recommend stopping here) 8. 23 grs: 2077 fps (Max Load recommended) 9. 24 grs: 2143 fps, stuck bolt and blew primer. Notes: This was done with a Swedish Military Mauser with a very generous throat. I seated the bullets out as far as practical and still have enough left for the case to grasp the bullets. If following these loads in commercial rifles with tighter throats please work up from a much lower point as deeper seated bullets can have a different effect. These were chambered in a Ruger 77 Mk 2, for comparison and that rifle took these Cartridges with no problems. I've been using Blue dot and surplus bullets for cheap shooting in my 30 cals. In my K-31 (7.5*55) 16.5 grains of blue dot under a 144g fmjbt (pulled surplus, $19.95 for 250) hits at my point of aim at 50 yards, same as my full power load of 39g BL-C2 and a 165g. 16 grains of blue dot and a 165 g spire point turned Dad's Savage 99 in .308 into a 1" gun. I think the thin barrel doesn't heat as fast with blue dot. in my 8*57 mausers, 16 g blue dot and rem 185 g hits at 50 yards using the 300 meter setting.

hs4570 said: .303 British was not included in Seafires data.............but using the 20% to 60% of case volume method with Bluedot....... #4 Longbranch sporter 3x9 Bushnell 1) go to the 85 gr Hornady HP/xtp in 303 Brit thread from a few days ago where I posted some Bluedot data at 75 yds.. 2) 22.0 gr. Bluedot Rem 71 gr fmj......2960 fps....3 shots/100yd..1.60 inch 3) 23.0gr Blue dot..............3059,3040,3045 fps...3shots/100 yd..1.50 inch 4) Plinker load.17.0 gr. Bluedot 174gr FMJ (surplus) 3shots/100 yds..1.50 inch 1649,1648.1619 fps 10 shots/100yds.......2.10 inch 5) 18.0 gr Bluedot 174 FMJ...........3shots/ 100yds...1.60.inch .1725,1704,1707 fps Usually use inert filler etc to blow out 303 Brit to My now EPPS(same rifle as a/n tests) however used the 17.0 gr. Bluedot and 174 fmj to fireform some too ......36 shots (1 Min. intervals) /100 yds and forming to Epps....3.25 in. group. .........may work in your Jungle carbine hs4570..........your mileage may vary

G*thmog said: Thanks, man ... I'll give it a try. :)

8675-30-9 said: Great info HS4570. Do you have an info on a recipe for a 22-250 w/1:14 twist and 36 gr Varmint Grenades?? Several years ago there was a gent on one of the American reloading forums By the handle "SEAFIRE" who advocated the useage of Blue dot powder for useage in rifle cases from .223 right up to .338 mag. His premise for these loads was to make reduced loads for cartridges so that youngsters and ladies might benefit from these loads in big bore rifles and not have to buy a smaller calibre for them that they would perhaps out grow and as they developed recoil tolerance they could eventually shoot full power loads in this same rifle. Most of his .30 cal loads approximated regular 30-30 loads, 150 gr. @2300 fps +/-.........or less if you wanted down to about say 1800 fps... these also served as Small game rounds in some calibres. Has any one on this board heard of this, and if so tried it in any calibers as I have and if so, did you have sucess also... plse advise what cal .etc. for my information. If not.......is there any interest in my results as I'm sure some must use reduced loads with pistol/shotgun powders....... Tried it in .222/ 223/ 243/ 308/30-06 and .338 mag./.444 Marlin........ ........did the unique /reddot/ Imr 4227/Imr4895/Imr4198 etc reduced loads route years ago.....and just want more bluedot info if available thanx..... hs4570.............your mileage may vary

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