Amazing 308 Win load data!

Why n*t? said: So as not to hijack the 35 cal.com?? thread any further, here's some new, and some not so new, pretty amazing loads for the 308 Winchester. From the Nosler website, both Partition and Accubond 200 gr bullets at way over 2500 fps! http://www.nosler.com/index.php?p=15&b=30cal&s=307 Think about this.......a 200 gr at 2570 is more than 2930 ft lb of muzzle energy! As posted on the 35 cal.com thread, this easily qualifies the 308 for woods bison hunting up here. Take a look a the 150 gr loads at over 3000 fps on the same page. Now there's a deer, sheep, and antelope load for you open country guys! More great news using Re17. This is really amazing stuff: http://www.6mmbr.com/reloder17.html How about 180s at 2640 out of a 22" barrel: http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=25&cartridge=80 And, of course, there's the old standby 180 gr partition load from Nosler's No 1 manual, 180 gr Partition at 2700 fps using IMR 4064, that we have used for years. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/laketrouter/DSC05982.jpg All you short action fans should be tickled with this stuff. Anyone else tried any of the new loads? Ted

G*n5tuff said: Thanks for the "heads up" on this new powder, Why Not. I'll bet this powder could improve the ballistics of my 8mm Mauser using 200 grain bullets. I'm going to be on the look out for reloading data for this caliber using Reloader 17.

Why n*t? said: I would guess that it would really make the 8X57 wake up. I have some 225 gr bullets here that you could try. PM me your mailing address, and I'll send you a few if you like. Note that the IMR 4350 load in the Nosler manual, 50 gr, also gives the 180 gr 2700 fps in the 308, and is the most accurate load as indicated by the asterisk beside it. Ted

1899 said: I saw those articles too Ted. The increase in performance with the 6XC is very impressive. I suspect the .260 Rem will also have a decent boost. I bet RL17 and the 130gr Swift ScII will be a great long range combo in the .260 Rem. Although it is a bit light for your neck of the woods! You've had lots of experience with the 250gr Speer and the .358 Win; are you going to give that bullet a try with RL17?

M1G*randfather said: Ted... Do you think this RL-17 powder would have any application for the 9.3x57 Mauser as well? Thanks Bob

*lberta tactical rifle said: This is nice that someone has actually authenticated what we have been doing and posting for over 2 years now. When I posted getting 2600 plus fps from my 22 " barrelled 308 shooting 200 plus gr bullets I got called out repeatedly I do not use RL17, according to the supplier of Reloader I use, it has not been approved for Canadian use not that that matters with supply being almost non existant here. I have been using Vitavhouri N550 with 200 SMKs and 208 Amaxs with great results.

Why n*t? said: I don't remember you being called out about that, Rick. If I had seen that, I certainly would have supported you, as I have been using the 200 gr Speer in the 308 for more than twenty years. Never got over 2600, but certainly close enough with Norma 204 that I would have come to your rescue. :D My latest venture being with a Stevens 200, factory 22" barrel, seated ten thou off the lands confirms what we already knew with our Husqvarnas. Just loaded some more today. Care to give us some loads with N550 ? Starting loads would be a good place to begin. :) Do you use moly with your loads? Ted

Why n*t? said: Ted... Do you think this RL-17 powder would have any application for the 9.3x57 Mauser as well? Thanks Bob Haven't tried yet, but my guess is it would really do well with the 286 gr. Odd you ask, as I just was discussing trying it in the 9.3X62 a few hours ago, with 1899. Ted

Why n*t? said: I saw those articles too Ted. The increase in performance with the 6XC is very impressive. I suspect the .260 Rem will also have a decent boost. I bet RL17 and the 130gr Swift ScII will be a great long range combo in the .260 Rem. Although it is a bit light for your neck of the woods! You've had lots of experience with the 250gr Speer and the .358 Win; are you going to give that bullet a try with RL17? Yessir, when I can find enough time to do all this! Where did this year go to? Ted

*ndy said: Ted... Do you think this RL-17 powder would have any application for the 9.3x57 Mauser as well? Thanks Bob I imagine that any round that works well with IMR or H4350 would thrive on it. 6.5x55, 30-06, 8x57 to name a few.

Why n*t? said: Here's a quote from Camp Cook about Re17 in his 375 Ultra. Heavy recoil is heavy recoil but even with the 200fps velocity gain I really couldn't tell the difference between the loads and it is nowhere near the recoil of my 300gr loads. Now I need to score 2 - 3 lbs more of RL17 so I don't run out this lbs is almost gone. Totally different cartridge, but same amazing velocity increase! Ted

Myst*c Precision said: I was able to get my hands on some Re17. In my 6.5 Mystic (260improved variant), I was able to get a bit more speed out of some 139gr Lapuas but accuracy was at the same speeds as H4831SC. however, pressures signs were HIGHER/more apparent then with H4831SC so I have not bothered doing more testing. Load density was also way less then with the H4831SC as can be expected with a 'faster' powder. If you look at the data published by Alliant, Re17 is not shown to offer any more speed at conventional pressures. however, in certain circumstances it most certainly does. Best news is that a new factory will be built in the US to cover more powder options using this tech. Eventually, we should see a whole range of powders delivering more fps/gr of powder burnt. wonder what the effect on the barrel will be? SAAMI rates the 200gr bullet in a 308 at 2400 to 2500ish fps under standard test parameters (taken off Hodgdon site but pretty much every company offers similar data). That is not saying we can't go faster :-) 180's at over 2600fps is listed by a bunch of powders too and I bet you can get over 2700fps with some elevated pressure loads. Jerry

H4831 said: I got a chronographed load of just over 2700 fps in my 30-06 Husqvarna, with 200 grain Speer or Nosler, with Norma 205. An old Norma loading chart shows 2684 fps, 200 grain bullet, with a ½ grain less powder than I used, to get 2700+. Ted, do you have any Norma powder left? I have no 205, but I do have 203 and 204. The Norma loading chart shows loadings for the 9.3 x 62. They show 2624 for the 232 grain bullet, but with the very much faster burning Norma 201. They show the same 201 powder to give the 286 grain bullet 2362 pps.

Why n*t? said: Bruce, I have only 204 left, and it is going fast. Used some more of it today to load up some bison loads for a lady up here, 180 partitions at over 2700 fps out of a 22" Stevens. Jerry, you won't see much increase in velocity until you try Re17 with heavier bullets. I think you would see a big increase over 4831 with 160s. Having said that, I know that is not what you designed the Mystic for. Ted

f*remachine69 said: Great, another powder I'll have to pick up and "try" out. :mad: :D

Myst*c Precision said: Why Not?, Re17 seems to respond in very heavy for cals situations but is it really doing this without elevated pressures??? Or is it just burning is such a way that pressures signs aren't as obvious in our rifles? I know that in my Mystic, it was very peaky with stiff bolt lift, flatterned primers, etc were very obvious at more speed. I know another shooter that has achieved quite a bit more speed and it is working without any real issues in his rifle. Just depends I guess. With how little powder I was using, going to a heavier bullet would have made the situation worse. In this case capacity/bore, Re 17 is too fast for my applications. Re17 works the best when it is operating on the slow side of desired powders. It has a relative burn rate between H4350 and H4831SC. As for N550 308 loads, I checked a few manuals and found this in the most current Lee - 190gr bullet N550 maxed out at 2516fps at SAAMI Spec which can go as high as 60,000psi for the 308. Most loads hold to 58000psi So a 200gr bullet should max out at a similar 2500fps (or a bit slower) for the same pressures. This is exactly what all other powders show in various load manuals. Nosler manual does show sig. greater speeds with W760 which was very surprising. As a reference, magnums are maxed by SAAMI at 63000psi although 65000psi is often worked without issue. Proof pressure loads usually are in the 75 to 80000psi range. Many times these loads can be fired and the bolt operated without any real resistance. Continuous shooting at these pressure levels, the useable lifespan of an action is dramatically reduced before failure. Getting more speed out of a standard cartridge has been done forever. Doing this while staying within SAAMI specs HASN'T! Just be careful... Jerry

*ndy said: I have taken it upon myself to post some extracts from a post that Why Not? made here on CGN on a thread about WhelenB's 35cal website. Andy, apparently the retardant is throughout the powder granules, instead of just on the outside of the powder. This prolongs the high pressure curve, so the bullet is accelerated by higher pressure for a longer period of time in the barrel. This can be easily seen on a pressure trace. Here's a quote from the article on 6BR: "How does RL17 produce so much added speed? There are two main reasons--unique burn properties and high load density. In its chemical properties, RL17 is like no other powder available in the U.S. market. Made in Switzerland by Nitrochemie, RL17 has a unique burn-rate controlling chemical that penetrates all the way through the kernels. Other common extruded powders have only a surface coating. Reloader 17's unique penetrating burn-rate regulator smooths out the pressure curve, allowing RL17 to maintain high energy for a longer period of time." This results in amazing velocity increases. "With the popular 6XC case, shooting 115gr bullets, most guys are topping out at about 2980-3000 fps with a max load of H4350 or H4831. In just-completed tests with RL17, German Salazar and Bob Jensen were able to achieve 3211 fps with the 115s at safe pressures. And with 107gr Sierra Match-Kings, German was able to increase his 6XC's max velocity from 3038 fps to a mind-blowing 3311 fps. That's a gain of 273 fps over his max load with H4831sc." There is a lot of discussion about RL17 on other boards, which is where I first heard about it. Was going to try it in the 9.3X62 this weekend with some, but The Sportslodge here, is all out as of Thursday. Guys bought it up pretty quick once the word got out. Sounds reasonable - the part about smoothing out the pressure curve and adding more area (i.e. energy) under it. On reflection though, isn't that exactly what successively slower powders do? If you compare the pressure curve of Bullseye against RL25 you see this very clearly. Is the pressure curve for RL17 even flatter, but not as high? There is no magic powder, just trying to understand what might be happening. Otherwise you have to conclude that the higher MV's are due to higher peak pressures. Bought some RL17 today. ;)

Why n*t? said: No argument with your results, Jerry, however that is your experience with one rifle, your 6.5 Mystic. This thread is about loading the 308 Win, which is not a magic cartridge, but has been used and loaded for by scores of thousands of people. Having said that, from the 6BR article, "German (Salazar) was able to increase his 6XC's max velocity from 3038 fps to a mind-blowing 3311 fps. That's a gain of 273 fps over his max load with H4831sc." Again, this with heavy for caliber 107gr Sierra Match-Kings. Did you read Ricks post, #6 on this thread? He has been getting these kinds of velocities for several years, as have a lot of others on different boards. Montana Marine on 24 hr routinely gets over 2500 with 200 MKs and 208 gr A-Maxes out of a 20 1/2" Remington factory barrel. He is a very experienced, careful handloader, who definitely knows what he is doing. Finally, for what it is worth, I have personally been loading 200 gr Speers in the 308 Win, for hunting, since the mid 80s, and never blown a primer. Had some pretty flat ones, but so have you, and you can reach 2500 long before that happens. :) Obviously, if Nosler publicly posts a 200 gr load at 2571 fps, and other folks are getting velocities considerably over 2500 fps with 200 gr and heavier bullets with good case life and tight primer pockets, something is going on that we can all benefit from. That is the purpose of this thread. As you well know, every barrel is different and gets different velocities with identical loads. PO Ackley told me one time that he made two barrels out on one very long blank. I forget the original length, but it doesn't really matter. He fitted, chambered and headspaced both barrels to the same action, using the same reamer, then proceeded to work up the loads. One of the barrels got almost 70 fps more velocity than the other! Therein lies the problem with loading data from one rifle to the next. My Stevens 223 Ackley gets over 3900 fps with 40 gr Ballistic Tips and 3000 with 75 gr A-Max out of its 22" barrel. Someone else may get more or less out of a 24" barrel. Actually, I have a suspicion that factory barrels get higher velocity than the ultra-smooth custom tubes. Would be interested on your experience in this regard. The Stevens 308 I am working the loads up for right now, has a factory chamber with a fairly long throat. I wouldn't dream of shooting the same loads in a match rifle with tighter chamber and minimum throat. For the same reason, I don't post the loads here. To sum it all up, every rifle is a law unto itself. We all need to always be careful when handloading. Thanks for the heads up! Hold hard, and breathe easy. Ted

Why n*t? said: Bought some RL17 today. ;) Okay, Andy, we'll be looking forward to how you make out!

1899 said: I have taken it upon myself to post some extracts from a post that Why Not? made here on CGN on a thread about WhelenB's 35cal website. Sounds reasonable - the part about smoothing out the pressure curve and adding more area (i.e. energy) under it. On reflection though, isn't that exactly what successively slower powders do? If you compare the pressure curve of Bullseye against RL25 you see this very clearly. Is the pressure curve for RL17 even flatter, but not as high? There is no magic powder, just trying to understand what might be happening. Otherwise you have to conclude that the higher MV's are due to higher peak pressures. Bought some RL17 today. ;) Perhaps it is a "variable" rate of burn: starts fast and then slows, or the other was around. There was some reloading info on an African site that mixed two powders (I know, I know); There must have been a reason for doing that.

H4831 said: "I have a suspicion that factory barrels get higher velocity than the ultra-smooth custom tubes. Would be interested on your experience in this regard." Ted, I once took some STP oil, the type meant to be added to engine oil and is the stickiest, hardest to get rid of, of any oil I have ever seen, out to the range with me. I chronographed a load of five 30-06 cartridges. Then I took the identical cartridges and before I chambered each one, I coated all of the bullet that stuck out of the neck, with STP. That group of five was 100 feet per second slower, than were the regular, uncoated bullets! This falls in line with your super smooth barrel theory.

Myst*c Precision said: To sum it all up, every rifle is a law unto itself. We all need to always be careful when handloading. Thanks for the heads up! Hold hard, and breathe easy. Ted I wish pressure trace equipment was more readily available. We know that pressure signs as indicated by bolt lift and primer appearance can be masked through very tight tolerances. However, it doesn't change the fact that the steel was subjected to so many PSI's. This was a common problem through most of the early years of wildcatting. No pressure gear. Amazing velocities were achieved with all manner of sharp shouldered wondercats. the 7STW is one of the best documented examples of overpressure without pressure signs. With the hype that was generated, Rem stepped up and the cartridge was SAAMI certified. Velocities plummeted to not much more then a 7RM given the short barrels used in hunting applications. Sales reflected the lack of potency and this cartridge died quickly. Same went for a cape buffalo smoking custom revolvers and chambering that seemed to defy the laws of physics with how much power and speed they could generate with nary a problem. Lab test later confirmed that these handguns were touching 100,000psi with their wonder loads. A bit more and the steel could/would have grenaded. Very well designed revolvers though!!! This chambering still exists today and is still VERY powerful. But it is no where near the performance pre lab tests. New compact cartridges from Ruger and Hornady produce some very exciting performance from short barrels. They use a non cannister powder to achieve it. Wonder what results you would obtain handloading? Likely not very exciting. Until someone, including the many shooters listed, can offer velocities AND pressure data showing some 'free lunch', I will keep a skeptical eye on the results. Are there such things as high energy powders? You better believe it. Problem is that we can't access them nor their loading techniques (for the most part). Re17 IS a new gen of powder that shares very exciting chemistry. This will be developed further and eventually apply to more and more powders. But when the powder manf releases load data that is not as exciting as some shooters are getting, I really wonder why. Were you aware that for several years there has been a powder that will 'remove copper' as it burns? Good bye fouling.... Can we get this powder? Not yet and likely never as it would really cut into the sales of all that cleaning stuff... YMMV.... Jerry PS, just remembered a very knowlegeable loader and shooter was able to get OVER 3100fps out of a 308 and 155's. He even competed with this load at major matches without loss of life or limb. He has not pressure tested the load and has no intention of doing so. Do the math on that one.

1899 said: Jerry - I assume you read the article on 6mmBR.com...if not it is quite interesting. You are right with the pressure, RL17 was loaded to 60,800psi vs 50,400psi with H4831SC in the 6XC to give 3211fps vs 2950fps with 115gr Bergers. Do you think that RL17 will allow you to hold a peak preassure, or somewhere near it, for a longer time and thereby increase performance without extra peak pressure?

Myst*c Precision said: Jerry - I assume you read the article on 6mmBR.com...if not it is quite interesting. You are right with the pressure, RL17 was loaded to 60,800psi vs 50,400psi with H4831SC in the 6XC to give 3211fps vs 2950fps with 115gr Bergers. Do you think that RL17 will allow you to hold a peak preassure, or somewhere near it, for a longer time and thereby increase performance without extra peak pressure? Amazes me that anyone would could make a comparison with such glaring problems. 60 vs 50K PSI is a monstrous difference in potential performance. If you assumed that velocity and pressure are directly related (they most certainly are not but why worry about such details), the H4831SC load 'could' go 3500fps at 60K psi. In this world, I don't pay taxes, can eat all the cake I want and not gain any weight, date supermodels..... This is why I don't get overly excited until there is data with properly normalized data. Run both powders at the same pressures (testing with real pressure test gear), in the same barrel and see what happens. As much as I would love to say that Re17 gave me more velocity, it didn't. It behaved pretty much the same as other conventional powders. To answer your question directly, you would need to compare pressure trace curves using proper test equipment and see what happens. I am sure there are some improvements but can't say for sure until some better data gets published. Jerry

Why n*t? said: Were you aware that for several years there has been a powder that will 'remove copper' as it burns? Good bye fouling.... Can we get this powder? Not yet and likely never as it would really cut into the sales of all that cleaning stuff... YMMV.... Jerry Norma 204 has been compounded with tin ever since it's introduction. I have never seen metal fouling in any barrel using this powder. It will actually remove copper fouling from a barrel that was deposited there before starting to use this powder in it. Ted

Why n*t? said: Amazes me that anyone would could make a comparison with such glaring problems. 60 vs 50K PSI is a monstrous difference in potential performance. Of course it is! That is the whole point of the article. Develop a powder that can maintain higher pressure longer without spiking. This is why I don't get overly excited until there is data with properly normalized data. Run both powders at the same pressures (testing with real pressure test gear), in the same barrel and see what happens. As much as I would love to say that Re17 gave me more velocity, it didn't. It behaved pretty much the same as other conventional powders. Of course, you don't have any of this equipment, so your observations are just that, observations. The guys on 6BR used pressure trace equipment. I am sure there are some improvements but can't say for sure until some better data gets published. Jerry Agreed. It will be good to see that! Best, Ted

Why n*t? said: Andy, Jerry, Bruce, and others, I have been reading through this thread again this evening and seriously trying to sort through all of your information and comments. Sounds reasonable - the part about smoothing out the pressure curve and adding more area (i.e. energy) under it. On reflection though, isn't that exactly what successively slower powders do? If you compare the pressure curve of Bullseye against RL25 you see this very clearly. Is the pressure curve for RL17 even flatter, but not as high? There is no magic powder, just trying to understand what might be happening. Otherwise you have to conclude that the higher MV's are due to higher peak pressures. You know, Andy, I think that may be exactly what is happening. The pressure curve is flatter. If you look at the data published by Alliant, Re17 is not shown to offer any more speed at conventional pressures. however, in certain circumstances it most certainly does. Best news is that a new factory will be built in the US to cover more powder options using this tech. Eventually, we should see a whole range of powders delivering more fps/gr of powder burnt. wonder what the effect on the barrel will be? That is encouraging, is it not Jerry, that there will be more development in this arena? Your question about barrel effects is certainly relevant. Higher and longer sustained pressure means higher and longer sustained heat as well, and further down the barrel. Will such powders erode the throat quicker and longer? I chronographed a load of five 30-06 cartridges. Then I took the identical cartridges and before I chambered each one, I coated all of the bullet that stuck out of the neck, with STP. That group of five was 100 feet per second slower, than were the regular, uncoated bullets! This falls in line with your super smooth barrel theory. Bruce, this is exactly what happens when moly is plated onto bullets. There is a lot to think about, and discover in the days ahead. It will be interesting. :cool: Ted

bl*rgon said: Note that the IMR 4350 load in the Nosler manual, 50 gr, also gives the 180 gr 2700 fps in the 308, and is the most accurate load as indicated by the asterisk beside it. I run 180's at 2625 with 45.5gr Varget, from my 22" .308... I think you'd have a very compressed load with 50gr of IMR 4350 in a .308 case, using a 180...

Why n*t? said: I run 180's at 2625 with 45.5gr Varget, from my 22" .308... I think you'd have a very compressed load with 50gr of IMR 4350 in a .308 case, using a 180... It is compressed, and does get 2700 in two rifles I tried it in, however the 4064 load gets the same velocity, actually about 20 fps more, so stuck with that one. Ted

Myst*c Precision said: Why Not?, my issue with using too grossly different max pressures is that IF the H4831SC load was raised to the same pressure as the Re17 load, I bet their muzzle velocities would be very similar. It is like comparing the same car but with different motors and colour. Take a 4 cylinder Red car vs a V6 Blue car which goes faster and saying "blue cars are faster". If they had the pressure trace gear, they should have equalized the peak pressures and then compared how the performance changed. Pretty sure they would have found little difference between the two powders. H4831SC is one of the more docile powders and isn't peaky until well past what could be considered safe loading pressures. 60K psi is not hot at all. A typical magnum runs up to 65,000psi and truckloads of H4831 has been burnt in these over the decades. Yes, the new chemistry is trying to increase the 'area under the curve'. Meaning if you looked at a pressure trace graph, the curve would raise to allowable peak pressures then stay there longer or have a shallower drop in pressure. This means the bullet is accelerated harder for longer which should lead to higher velocities. Unfortunately, most barrels are quite short relative to the amount of energy available (why we have such a load muzzle blast) so most of that extra push never makes it to the bullet. however, I remain excited about what new tech will be offered in the years to come. There will be fuels that will give more velocity per gr of powder burnt at the SAME peak pressure. But I feel that these same powders will put wear further down the barrel so setting back will be less useful. There never is a free lunch. I think the real gains will be in powders suitable for smaller cases with the prime one the 223/5.56 NATO Jerry

Why n*t? said: Why Not?, my issue with using too grossly different max pressures is that IF the H4831SC load was raised to the same pressure as the Re17 load, I bet their muzzle velocities would be very similar. You are missing the point, Jerry. You can't get enough 4831sc into the case to get the pressure to 60K. You can get enough Re17 in there. If they had the pressure trace gear, they should have equalized the peak pressures and then compared how the performance changed. Pretty sure they would have found little difference between the two powders. If you read the article, they are using pressure trace equipment. H4831SC is one of the more docile powders and isn't peaky until well past what could be considered safe loading pressures. 60K psi is not hot at all. A typical magnum runs up to 65,000psi and truckloads of H4831 has been burnt in these over the decades. Right, and running at the 60K level is what got these amazing velocities with Re17. Just as an aside, I have personally burned up over a hundred pounds of the old surplus 4831. We used to buy it in 50 pound cardboard kegs for 50 cents a pound. Those were the days. :) Yes, the new chemistry is trying to increase the 'area under the curve'. Meaning if you looked at a pressure trace graph, the curve would raise to allowable peak pressures then stay there longer or have a shallower drop in pressure. This means the bullet is accelerated harder for longer which should lead to higher velocities. Unfortunately, most barrels are quite short relative to the amount of energy available (why we have such a load muzzle blast) so most of that extra push never makes it to the bullet. however, I remain excited about what new tech will be offered in the years to come. There will be fuels that will give more velocity per gr of powder burnt at the SAME peak pressure. Jerry And, I will be one of the first to rejoice with you as that comes down the road. Ted

Myst*c Precision said: Then they should have used a powder that could. H4350 would have fit in the case just fine and easily met their peak pressures. If not, then VARGET. Why were they fixated on H4831SC in the first place? Again, it is odd that you would set up an experiment where the outcome must be the answer you want. More infomercial then information. Jerry

Why n*t? said: In the meantime, many of us will keep driving 150s at 3000, 180s at 2700, and 200s at 2500 in the 308 with various powders, and sharing that news with others, which was the original intent of this thread. Please see the original post. :) Ted

H4831 said: Ted, in one of your posts you stated, "PO Ackley told me one time---" We sure would like to hear some more! How about a story to complete the statement? Bruce

Myst*c Precision said: Yep, quite the hijack. Oooops. Back to the orig programming :-) Keep your eyes out for the next Re powder using this new chemistry. The rumor is it will useful in 223 with heavy bullets. If this happens, like Re15 on steroids, it will be HUGE for 308's too. The goal is to make all those M4's behave like longer barreled rifles. Jerry

Why n*t? said: Roger that. Just what I need for my 223 Ackley! You're talking about their new Pro line, I presume. http://www.alliantpowder.com/whats_new/press_releases.aspx Ted

L*ngshot said: Ok so who carries RL 17 in say...BC? ;)

*lberta tactical rifle said: I don't remember you being called out about that, Rick. If I had seen that, I certainly would have supported you, as I have been using the 200 gr Speer in the 308 for more than twenty years. Never got over 2600, but certainly close enough with Norma 204 that I would have come to your rescue. :D My latest venture being with a Stevens 200, factory 22" barrel, seated ten thou off the lands confirms what we already knew with our Husqvarnas. Just loaded some more today. Care to give us some loads with N550 ? Starting loads would be a good place to begin. :) Do you use moly with your loads? Ted Starting load for N550 with 200 gr SMK is 43 gr, I have gone up to 46, but found 45.5 the sweetspot in my rifle with the 208 Amax. Please note this is with Lapua brass and BR2 primers being fired in a tight match chamber start lower by at leat 10% and work up. YMMV I do not subscribe to moly at all, Gun Juice is what I use in all my rifles.

ch*mo said: thanks i didnt have any data for imr 4350 :D

Why n*t? said: :confused:

ch*mo said: well your picture shows data for imr 4350, my book doesn't and I have a pound of imr 4350 waiting to be used

Why n*t? said: Okay, got it! I was trying to associate the quotes in your signature line with the thread. Duhhhh :rolleyes: You're welcome. It is a compressed load, but 4350 will get you 2700 fps! Keep us posted on your experience. Ted

Myst*c Precision said: Roger that. Just what I need for my 223 Ackley! You're talking about their new Pro line, I presume. http://www.alliantpowder.com/whats_new/press_releases.aspx Ted The factory hasn't been built yet but will be a joint venture between the the company in Europe making Re17 and ATK in the US From the description, it sounds like the powder that has been loaded in short magnum factory ammo. There are very few ball powders in cannister form that share modern tech of the extruded powders. I don't think these are high energy powders, just high density powders that are likely more temp stable. Interesting and will be useful to those with progressive presses. There is so little tech info. Hard to know what they will really do for us. In using the Alliant site looking at a few powders, it was funny to see Re17 listed as the slowest powder as compared to Re15 and 19. Look up the 243 WSSM 75gr HP load Jerry

M*ntanaMarine said: Hello all, New member here from near Helena, Montana. I've been developing a few loads with RL17 in the 308, and 30-06. I've been achieving very good velocities without pressure signs too. I use Quickload as an aid to load development. My top loads with 308/200s, calc 70-75K pressure on QL, but show none of the usual pressure indicators that typically show themself at around 65K pressure calc. Interestingly, I ran some of the load data with RL17 on Alliant's website. Particularly the 300 WSM, and 300SAUM loads with the 180gr bullets. They calc in the 70-75K pressure range too, per Quickload. I believe the properties of RL17, particularly the impregnated retardant lowering and extending the top of the pressure curve, are not clearly interpreted via quickload software formulas. Anyway, here's the nuts and bolts of what I have been doing, Rifle: Rem 700 VS LH, 308Win, 1/12 twist factory barrel cut to 20.5" and braked. Brass: Win, fireformed/neck-sized Primer: CCI 200 200 gr Accubond, moly’d 2.82" OAL (mag length, .130" jump to lands) RL-17 48 gr - 2485 fps, very low pressure 50 gr – 2620 fps, heavily compressed, but no bullet deformation) ------------------------------------------------------- 200gr Sierra Game King BTSP CCI 200 2.81 OAL (.140" jump) RL-17 50 gr – 2620 fps 51 gr - 2670 fps 51.5 gr – 2700 fps 52 gr - 2720 fps (fairly heavy compression, just a hint of bolt resistance after firing, no ejector imprint or primer flattening). ---------------------------- 208 AMax 3.00" OAL (touching lands) RL-17 46 gr - 2380 fps 47 gr - 2430 fps 48 gr - 2480 fps 49 gr - 2530 fps 50 gr - 2570 fps 51 gr - 2645 fps A few pics, The 308, McMillan A5, Leupold MK4 3.5-10x40, and a couple test groups. These were shot at 100 yds, in a full-value 15-25 mph breeze, so there is some horizontal spread showing. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/montanamarine/308%20Targets/IMG_1317.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/montanamarine/308%20Targets/308200s.jpg The rifle is known to handle the heavies well despite the slow twist. This 15x25" steel was shot at 1120 yards, with 208 AMax started at 2480 fps via 44.5gr RL15. Wind was at my back, 10-15 mph, http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/montanamarine/308%20Targets/Img_7466.jpg Good Shooting, Shane

K*van said: Welcome aboard Shane, interesting post . Keep up the good work !! :)

1899 said: Welcome, and thanks for the informative post.

f*remachine69 said: Shane: I am in love with your left-handed rifle. :cool::rockOn:

Why n*t? said: Hey, Shane, welcome to CGN. The rifle is known to handle the heavies well despite the slow twist. This 15x25" steel was shot at 1120 yards, with 208 AMax started at 2480 fps via 44.5gr RL15. Wind was at my back, 10-15 mph It is interesting that this is exactly the same velocity as the same load you show in your Quickload printout with Re 17. If not a typo, then this is further evidence that Re17 develops a much flatter pressure curve as the pressure is increased. If you had kept going to 51 gr with Re15, there would have been all kinds of signs of excessive pressure! Great first post! You are going to enjoy it here. Ted

M*ntanaMarine said: Ted, I pushed up to 45.0gr RL15 under the moly'd 208, and did get pressure in the form of bolt lift resistance. So I dropped back to 44.5gr, which shot well at 2480 fps, without any pressure signs. No typo on the 48gr RL17/2480. I noted that it was the same velocity as 44.5gr RL15 too.

M*ntanaMarine said: firemachine, Thanks. I've got a couple more chambered in 30-06. A heavy rig, and a sporter. The three make up my boltgun battery. Keeps logistics fairly simple. I'm thinking RL17 might be a good crossover powder for both 308 and 30-06, since I mostly shoot heavies in the 308. The LH 30-06s, http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/montanamarine/700s/IMG_1247.jpg

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