45-70 government Marlin 1895 lever action using IMR 4198

g*rradh said: Hi, I am loading for my Marlin 1895 using IMR 4198 with 300 grain Hornady bullets but the odd thing is I am finding conflicting data. First I looked in my speers manual #14 and it says for 45-70 lever actions using IMR 4198 300 gr bullet start charge 39.0 grs at 1610 fps. Max charge 43.0 grs at 1762 fps. So then I looked on www.hodgdon.com in the reloading data center and it says for 45-70 lever action same powder same weight in bullet. Start charge 53.7 grs at 2293 fps. Max charge 57.2 grs at 2407 fps. Thats 10.7 grs diference from Speers Max charge to hodgdon reloading data centers Start charge! My rifle is only 6 months old. So it is a modern rifle. I just don't know if it is safe to load off of the hogdgon web site being such a drastic diference. Does any one have any insight on this? And does any one know what Marlins 1895 Max CUP is? Speers manual is saying loads do not exceed 28,000 CUP and hodgdons max load is 39,100 CPU.

sl*ng said: Looked up the listing in my Hornady manual, it lists max load of 48.7. This is much closer to your speer manual than the Hodgdon load. Still it is quite a bit of difference between Hornady and Speer. All i can say is to start low and procede with much caution. Also, check out some of the other powders listed and see if you can find one that does not have as great a difference. As you probably are aware, most manuals list three different load ranges depending on firearm type used.

s*nior said: WARNING So then I looked on www.hodgdon.com in the reloading data center and it says for 45-70 lever action same powder same weight in bullet. Start charge 53.7 grs at 2293 fps. Max charge 57.2 grs at 2407 fps. I can guarrantee that load will be extremly dangerious in a lever gun!!!! That load is probably over max or very close in a BOLT gun! I know I have one! The Hodgdon manual you refer to says "45-70 Government (Modern Rifles)" it does not specify Lever guns. It's probably refering to Modern SS rifles like the very strong Ruger #1 & 3 & a few bolts guns! Don't forget there are also quite different strength levels for Lever guns as well, not all Manuals group the rifle strengths the same. Stick with a manual that specifies modern Marlin Levers!

b*gs said: From hodgdon manual for 1895 marlin only h4198 300gr bullet 55-60gr h4198 400gr bullet 46-50.5gr I am using 400gr with these loads in my 1895 with no problem The manual rates these at 39-40,000 cup pressure I belive the marlin is rated for 43,000 cup max.

S*abass said: While Hodgdon lists the highest pressure and hottest 45/70 loads their reloading data is still safe. I've shot plenty of max 'lever action only' loads thu my 1895G over the years without ill effect. The 1895 is build to handle 43,000cup (ish) pressures. Just becareful you don't use the Ruger #1 or Bolt action 45/70 data in your lever as they at loaded to 50,000 cup. Probally still won't blow up your gun but it would be unsafe to try of course. Good luck.

*nstableryan said: I looked at my desk.. I was using 42gr of IMR4198 with a 420gr hard cast and they worked well.. No where near max but no where near min either. I also used 45gr of H4198 for a somewhat similar load. These are pretty warm but not punishing and I've shot lots with no pressure signs.

s*nior said: My Hornady manual lists 48.7gns of IMR4198 as max with 300gn bullets in the Marlin 1895, that's a far cry from 55-60gns listed above! I've had listed Maual loads lock the bolt in another caliber. Those loads listed in Hogden just plain scare me...be carefull!

b*n hunchak said: Hogdon's top end pressure loads are the same pressure as the .450 Marlin factory loads in virtually the same rifle, take from that what you will!

*dward Teach said: The .450 Marlin is the lawyer's version. I see no reason why a new 1895 in 45/70 couldn't be loaded the same as one in .450.

g*rradh said: WARNING So then I looked on www.hodgdon.com in the reloading data center and it says for 45-70 lever action same powder same weight in bullet. Start charge 53.7 grs at 2293 fps. Max charge 57.2 grs at 2407 fps. I can guarrantee that load will be extremly dangerious in a lever gun!!!! That load is probably over max or very close in a BOLT gun! I know I have one! The Hodgdon manual you refer to says "45-70 Government (Modern Rifles)" it does not specify Lever guns. It's probably refering to Modern SS rifles like the very strong Ruger #1 & 3 & a few bolts guns! Don't forget there are also quite different strength levels for Lever guns as well, not all Manuals group the rifle strengths the same. Stick with a manual that specifies modern Marlin Levers! Yes it specifies lever actions

g*rradh said: I have loaded to the spears manual and I am going to contact hodgdon and see what is up with there loads. I looked again and these loads with hogdon do specify Lever Actions.

S*abass said: Then they are safe, Speer is conservative and only go to 28,000cup for their lever section and 35,000 for ruger and bolts. Hodgdon is 40,000 levers and 50,000 ruger/bolts for compaison. The 1895 action which house both th 450 marlin and 45/70 are the same action which handle 43,000 (ish) pressures. I've shot thousands of hot 35,000 to 41,000 pressure tested loads thu my marlin over the years, no worrys.

D*NCESWITHEMPTIES said: My Hornady manual lists 48.7gns of IMR4198 as max with 300gn bullets in the Marlin 1895, that's a far cry from 55-60gns listed above! I've had listed Maual loads lock the bolt in another caliber. Those loads listed in Hogden just plain scare me...be carefull! I have a tendency to agree. I had to dig up my reloading records & found that the max load I used was 49.5 grs. of IMR 4198 with Federal nickel plated cartridges (imo: junk), Federal 210 primers on a 300 gr JHP. That load I felt was hot, but showed no signs of being excessive from my guide gun. I'm not so sure it's true, but I was once told by now defunct gunsmith shop in Edmonton; that the guide gun barrel could split / crack before the action would give up the ghost due to too high a pressure. :jerkit: I never tested that theory & wouldn't recommend it! And that same individual said in the same breath you would run out of space in the cartridge before you could damage it using IMR 3031!




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