223 reduced loads using Unique or Titegroup powder

s*skgunowner101 said: Just looking for some reduced load data for the .223 using either Unique or Titegroup powder with a 50 grain jacketed bullet. I'm looking for velocities of 1,400 up to 2,000 fps. The girlfriend doesn't like the crack of higher velocity rounds so I thought I might expand my horizons and help her at the same time.:) She loves shooting rimfire but the bullet drop kind of screws with her after 65-70 meters. I figured if I could get a load running faster than rimfire, and slower than standard 223, I could build her confidence shooting out to 125-150 meters or so. Thanks in advance.

F*ssteel said: Just looking for some reduced load data for the .223 using either Unique or Titegroup powder with a 50 grain jacketed bullet. I'm looking for velocities of 1,400 up to 2,000 fps. The girlfriend doesn't like the crack of higher velocity rounds so I thought I might expand my horizons and help her at the same time.:) She loves shooting rimfire but the bullet drop kind of screws with her after 65-70 meters. I figured if I could get a load running faster than rimfire, and slower than standard 223, I could build her confidence shooting out to 125-150 meters or so. Thanks in advance. The best powder for your project is Blue Dot, can you get some of that? FS

T*mbleweed said: I've also found astonishing accuracy with Blue Dot in reduced .223 loads. A pound will keep you shooting all summer!

s*skgunowner101 said: I plan on getting some Bluedot eventually, just trying to scratch by on what I have on hand at the moment.:redface:

h*wkrider said: there is a Titegroup load on the Hodgson site. Max load 3.1 gr 55 gr fmj gives 1060 at 4000 cup, at little lower than what you are looking for I would guess it would be real close to .22lr ballistics. No personal experience with the load yet. Kim

Sc*r270 said: I've had good success with blue dot as well, but if it's the crack that bothers her, what sort of hearing protection is she wearing? Maybe better hearing protection would be a better way to go. Double up with plugs and muffs if you have to, or get her a set of custom plugs, you can get em made up for under $100 if you can find somewhere to get them done.

v*grantviking said: What you have here is the perfect excuse to go and get yourself a nice .22 Hornet. :D

s*skgunowner101 said: What you have here is the perfect excuse to go and get yourself a nice .22 Hornet. :D Yeah, that's on the "to buy" list (longer than my arm).:D

S*putin said: The girlfriend doesn't like the crack of higher velocity rounds Droppin velocity into the 1500-2000 fps range really will not make the thing much quieter. The bullet will still generate the same sonic crack. The muzzle blast will be slightly reduced but not by much. It will still be loud enough to require hearing protection.

G*nderite said: If you try 2.8 to 3.2 of Titegroup, you will find the load that is just under supersonic. about 1000 to 1100 fps out of 20" brl.

Gr*zzlypeg said: Could you use W231 or bullseye?

S*putin said: If you try 2.8 to 3.2 of Titegroup, you will find the load that is just under supersonic. about 1000 to 1100 fps out of 20" brl. What is the point of such a load? A .22 rimfire rifle can do this better, cheaper and more safely. Just because we can, doesn't mean we should ... seems to apply here.

j*hnnyreb65 said: I get dime size groups at 50 yards using 6.5gr of Unique with a 55gr FMJ..The case is cold when it comes out of the chamber. I just use the unique info for lead projectiles while using a FMJ..Only works with bolt action.

G*nderite said: 231 and bullseye seem too fast for this job. Unique would be my first choice.

s*skgunowner101 said: I might try a few mouse farts :D with Titegroup just to see what they do. Should I be concerned about sticking a jacketed bullet in the barrel at 1050 fps?? Maybe a little bit of Lee alox on the bullet to make er slip through easier?

v*grantviking said: At a 1000fps the bullet is not going to stick - kind of by definition. :) If you use the right powder it shouldn't be a concern and I wouldn't mess with lube or anything. If you were trying to load it down to 300fps or something I would start to worry about sticking a bullet but the loads that people are suggesting should get them out the end.

br*ncoo said: I've had good success with blue dot as well, but if it's the crack that bothers her, what sort of hearing protection is she wearing? Maybe better hearing protection would be a better way to go. Double up with plugs and muffs if you have to, or get her a set of custom plugs, you can get em made up for under $100 if you can find somewhere to get them done. custom plugs only reduce sound by 20-25db. throw away or washable plugs can be had that reduce noise by up to 35db (for the relly good ones) most average around 28-30db. add a pair of ear muffs @30db and the only thing that will let her know she is shooting will be recoil and smoke

F*ssteel said: custom plugs only reduce sound by 20-25db. throw away or washable plugs can be had that reduce noise by up to 35db (for the relly good ones) most average around 28-30db. add a pair of ear muffs @30db and the only thing that will let her know she is shooting will be recoil and smoke I agree 100%, double hearing protection can make a huge difference in someones comfort level at the range, like it did for me. I use to flinch like crazy when I first started into rifle shooting, not from the gun I was shooting, but from other fellows near by. Makes communicating with others kind of difficult, but I didn't care some much about that. FS

s*skgunowner101 said: At a 1000fps the bullet is not going to stick - kind of by definition. :) If you use the right powder it shouldn't be a concern and I wouldn't mess with lube or anything. If you were trying to load it down to 300fps or something I would start to worry about sticking a bullet but the loads that people are suggesting should get them out the end. Common sense would tell me it would be okay, but I wasn't sure seeing the powder burns faster/shorter time. That, and I read it on the internet some place.:p

n*tsorichguy said: This has got me thinking..... I can see some bench time in my future! Cheers!

Gl*ck Clock said: Just be careful with pistol powder in rifle cartridge. Light load in an near empty case is not a good idea.

l*neofsight said: If you try 2.8 to 3.2 of Titegroup, you will find the load that is just under supersonic. about 1000 to 1100 fps out of 20" brl. What gr bullets? (have 55, 62, 69, 75 thus if you have data for one of these will definitely try it). Found 3.1 Titetgroup with 55gr on the Hodgen site. Building 5R (24" 1:9) on B&C Varmint stock (also building identical big brother in .308 for the brass you sent is destined). Cheers.

*l-Sway said: I have used Unique, following the cast bullet data from a Lyman loading manual. I have never had an issue with loads of pistol powder in a rifle case; I am not sure what issues there might be. If you are following the cast bullet data, most pressures are well under normal operating pressures for the cartridge. When you are shooting them above 1000 fps there is no concern with sticking a bullet (I would worry if I tried shooting jacketed bullets well below 1000 fps in a rifle).

Gl*ck Clock said: I have used Unique, following the cast bullet data from a Lyman loading manual. I have never had an issue with loads of pistol powder in a rifle case; I am not sure what issues there might be. If you are following the cast bullet data, most pressures are well under normal operating pressures for the cartridge. When you are shooting them above 1000 fps there is no concern with sticking a bullet (I would worry if I tried shooting jacketed bullets well below 1000 fps in a rifle). It is called detonation. Light load + empty case = kaboom Just imagine the powder is laying down the case 1/4 full. The flame ignite the powder all at once. Normally, the powder burn from the primer end to the front.

G*nderite said: The loads i quoted are for the 55 gr bullet. only danger I can see is the risk of a double charge - although in a good rifle you might get away with it.

*pcx6 said: It is called detonation. Light load + empty case = kaboom Just imagine the powder is laying down the case 1/4 full. The flame ignite the powder all at once. Normally, the powder burn from the primer end to the front. Detonation was occurring using reduced loads of very slow powders (like 4831) in large capacity cases, not with pistol or shotgun powders. This is why most reloading manuals have warnings not to use charges less than the starting loads.

S*putin said: At a 1000fps the bullet is not going to stick - kind of by definition. Really? And you of course have extensive experience with this kind of low velocity loading? The load below was previously chono'd at near to 1000 fps. Wanna tell us again about how bullets won't get stuck in the bore at that velocity? It happened to me twice. Both times with unlubricated bullets. http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/images/guns/BulletStuckinBore.jpg Common sense would tell me it would be okay, but I wasn't sure seeing the powder burns faster/shorter time. That, and I read it on the internet some place. Common sense isn't all that common and in many cases is downright wrong. Don't forget that you read buddy's postulating about bullets never sticking on the internet as well.

S*putin said: only danger I can see is the risk of a double charge - although in a good rifle you might get away with it. Then might I suggest you do some research. There is this cool feature on the internet called Google that can be used to find just about any information. Detonation of small charges of powder in big cases can and does happen. The primary mechanism is though to be the incomplete ignition of nitroglycerin containing double base powders. The powder smolders, releasing the nitro as a vapour which then causes a high order detonation. In the 25 years I have been around guns, I have personally seen three revolvers that ended up looking like this. Every one of them was a 44 Mag. Is that coincidence or is this the result of a detonation event due to a small powder charge in a large case? I don't know the answer but I am not a big believer in coincidence. http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/DZaidle/image003.jpg I have never had an issue with loads of pistol powder in a rifle case; I am not sure what issues there might be. Dale Earnhart said exactly the same thing about basal skull fracture before he died of a basal skull fracture. That it has never gone wrong for you is completely irrelevant. It can happen and to ignor that fact is stupidity.

v*grantviking said: Really? And you of course have extensive experience with this kind of low velocity loading? The load below was previously chono'd at near to 1000 fps. Wanna tell us again about how bullets won't get stuck in the bore at that velocity? It happened to me twice. Both times with unlubricated bullets. 1. Actually yes, I do some low velocity loading in other chamberings. 2. If a bullet is moving at 1000fps (or even 2fps for that matter) it is MOVING and hence not STUCK. If that ain't common sense I don't know what is.... 3. There are factory pistol and rimfire loads out there that are meant to stay under 1000fps - Subsonics and such. Are they knowingly selling ammo that is going to occasionally get stuck in the bore? Somehow I doubt that their lawyers would approve. Maybe there is room for improvement in your reloading system...

S*putin said: 1. Actually yes, I do some low velocity loading in other chamberings. Note to self: Don't stand anywhere near vagrant viking when he is shooting his low vel loads ..... 2. If a bullet is moving at 1000fps (or even 2fps for that matter) it is MOVING and hence not STUCK. If that ain't common sense I don't know what is.... I don't even know how to respond to this tripe. In your world stuff that "IS MOVING" can never stop moving? Get real. The discussion is about low velocity loads in rifle cartridges and these kinds of loads can produce stuck bullets. Your argument is pedantic and silly. 3. There are factory pistol and rimfire loads out there that are meant to stay under 1000fps - Subsonics and such. Are they knowingly selling ammo that is going to occasionally get stuck in the bore? Somehow I doubt that their lawyers would approve. The discussion is about loading low-vel ammo in RIFLE CARTRDIGES. Try and stay with the conversation. Not too many companies make such things an the ones that do go to lengths to ensure that bullets exit the bore reliably. Maybe there is room for improvement in your reloading system... Yes, it is called lubricated bullets and specially prepared cases. I have developed and loaded subsonic rounds in four different rifle cases and fired hundreds upon hundreds of these kinds of rounds safely. The two that stuck were the result of my not following the rules and properly lubricating the bullets.

Gr*zzlypeg said: Are not the really fast pistol powders already burning as fast as they can and they are not subject to detonation owing to underfilling a case? You can fill a 45 or 38spl case with only a couple of grains of 231 or bullseye, and nothing dangerous happens because the case if over 90% empty. Slower powders like 296 carry the warning of dangers of under filling cases.

s*skgunowner101 said: I still have all my fingers and eyes.:) I loaded up five rounds each of 6.5, 6.8, 7.1, and 7.4 grains Unique with a 50 grain soft point and went to it. Shooting at 50 meters the 6.5 went about 1/2 inch, the 6.8 shot inside that group, so less than 1/2. The 7.1 shot a touch over 1/2 and the 7.4 opened up to the outside of that group. The report is much less with these loads than factory but still louder than CCI Stingers. They also shoot about two inches lower than factory ammo. I have no clue on the velocity though.

n*tsorichguy said: What velocitys were you getting saskgunowner? Just curious if this would be an indoor range acceptable load (under 1000fps) Cheers!

s*skgunowner101 said: What velocitys were you getting saskgunowner? Just curious if this would be an indoor range acceptable load (under 1000fps) Cheers! Not a clue on the velocities, sorry.:redface: If I had to pull a number out of the air, my guess would be faster than Stingers and quit a bit less than factory Rem going 3000 fps.(1600-1800 s.w.a.g.??) I was shooting at 50 meters, and they twack the wood pile at 75 meters quicker than any rimfire I've shot. They shoot about 2 inches lower than factory Remington at 50 meters. I also tried out Ganderites suggestion of 3.2 grains of Titegroup behind a 50 grain Hornady softpoint. These are reportedly going around 1100 fps, and they shoot approx. 4 inches low at 50 meters compared to the Remington stuff. Maybe a touch less powder would make it suitable for indoors, but I'd just use a rimfire before going with the Titegroup loads. I only shot a few 5 round groups, and they both had a nice group with one flyer....try it out if you like, but not as quiet as you'd think. I do find it fun to experiment though, so it wasn't a waste of time at all. Let me know how you make out when/if you give it a shot.

n*tsorichguy said: I've got all the components..... I just got to find the time to put it all together..... I've been working an outside job for the last 6 weeks, all I can find the energy for when I get home from work, is laying on the couch! It will be another 2 to 3 weeks before I will get all the loading done, then I (knowing my weak azzed self) will probably wait for a day when it isn't snowing, blowing or colder than -10 before I get a chance to fire them off...... Cheers!

S*ko223 said: As it happens I loaded up five .223 rounds a couple of days back using the Hodgdon recipe of 3.1gr of Titegroup and a 55gr bullet. They worked fine, but as others have pointed out a rimfire is substantially cheaper. Even a 17HMR would probably be cheaper to shoot. I checked the bore after every round despite the fact this is an "official" load from a trusted source. I would be wary of some of the other recipes out there.




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