.30-06 w/ H4831
bl*emike807 said: Ok, I am a newcomer to reloading, please be gentle. I have a pound can of H4831 - and the latest Hornady and Hodgdon reloading manuals - and have read both. Im hoping to reload for .30-06, with 180gr Softpoint, round nose bullets. The Hornady book doesnt have a loadout for that powder (I bought the powder on impulse - opportunity knocked, I hadn't even expected to find a place that sold components, so I hadn't bothered to research powder, and Im still new so I didnt know what to get - the store owner recommended it so here I am. In hindsight, I should've gotten H 4350). The Hodgdon book has a load for a 180 gr. SIE SPBT (Spire Point Boat Tail, not sure about SIE), but not the roundnose, for 60.0 grains Compressed (from what I've read, that just means the act of seating the bullet will compress the powder?) But it seems contradictory because the Hornady book, for a 220 gn bullet, calls for 44.0 gr of the same powder. Im obviously not doing anything until I get this figured out, but help would be much appreciated, gents.
rgv said: i think you may have mis-read something. 60 grains with a 180 is ballpark max with a 180 grain bullet (any shape except for solid copper like barnes). I've ran as much as 62-63 44 grains with a 220 is pretty low, maybe thats listed as a starting load? the various 4831's (H4831, IMR4831, H4831SC) are good powders for the 30-06/180 combo, and often outperform the various 4350's but you are splitting hairs in reality.
s*skcop said: I have used the H4831 powder in the .30-06 with hornady 180 psp's and it worked well. I worked up to 60 grains with CCI 250 primers and various brass. Very accurate, but H4350 will beat it in velocity - hands down any day. H4831 is the way to go with 220's though.
bl*emike807 said: What I had been reading were, indeed minimum loads - wanted to start small and work my way up, minimize risk of accidents. I just wanted to be sure where a safe starting point (or at least, maximum) was for 180gns. I will likely start at 50-55 then and go from there. Thanks for the advice, but feel free to keep it coming, too :P
mm*ttockx said: The SIE in the Hodgdon info is for Sierra bullets. If you have a max load of 60gr, just back off about 10% (ie - 54gr) and start from there. Mark
m*rtinbns said: My first good load I developed for a 30-06 was 60 grs of H4831sc and a 165 gr Speer hotcore. IT killed great and was really accurate until I ran it over a chronograph and then it didn't work any more, only 2650 fps...lol H4350 is a better powder, but H4831 will work, it just won't produce great velocity
H4831 said: My first good load I developed for a 30-06 was 60 grs of H4831sc and a 165 gr Speer hotcore. IT killed great and was really accurate until I ran it over a chronograph and then it didn't work any more, only 2650 fps...lol H4350 is a better powder, but H4831 will work, it just won't produce great velocity Yes I consider 180 grain bullets as being minimum weight for 4831. 60 grains of 4831 and a 180 bullet is usually accurate. I have never chronographed it and I suspect it will be under the speed listed for a 30-06 and 180 bullet, 2700. Of course, I don't think there is a factory loaded 30-06, 180, on the market that will give 2700 fps, as the ballistic tables show. It takes a good shot of 4350 to get a 165 up to speed. 58 grains of 4350, 165 Hornady, one 30-06 gave 2778 and another 30-06 gave just under 2700. Pretty mild, and well below what they are shown as going in the loading books and ballistic charts.
b*n hunchak said: My best and fastest loads in the 30/06 are with RL19 and H-414, I find H-4831 a bit slow for this cartridge.
s*skcop said: I have chronied many factory 180 grain rounds and I found that Speer Nitrex - which I don't think they make any longer consistently shot 2730ish out of a 22" tube. I have one box left.
b*arhunter said: The guys are right on the money about H4831, being to slow for anything under 180 grains in a 30-06. I will admit though, that with 58grains of H4831 over a CCI250 magnum primer, under a 180grn flat base spire point, it is an extremely consistent performer and delivers excellent accuracy out of 3 different rifles. Shoot it up, with those 180grn round nose bullets. They are "usually" designed for lower velocity performance anyway. The use of magnum primers isn't really necessary, some may even scoff at it being mentioned. It's just my personal preference and seems to give good consistency, performance and accuracy wise. If it isn't broken, don't fix it. One nice thing about H4831, it is an extremely forgiving powder. I got away from it for a while but find myself using it more and more again lately. When I say forgiving, I mean, if your loads are + or - 1/2 grain, you won't notice a lot, if any difference in performance, shot to shot. H4831 is a great powder, for many cartridge/bullet combinations. It may not give you extreme velocities, but it will perform acceptably. The animal, on the receiving end won't be able to tell the difference. Bruce, H4831, uses it as a sig line for a reason. He knows his stuff, when he talks about powders, he's the meticulous type you understand. H4831 is a great powder to begin a hand loading career with. So is the 30-06 and 180grn bullets.
*agleye said: My pet load for years was old surplus H4831 and the 180 grain Partition. That lot of H4831 needed 62 grains to get 2675 fps, but shot well. Then I discovered N205, and never looked back. 2800 easy with the 180 at safe pressures. MRP gives similar results, and that is what I use to this day. Eagleye.
H4831 said: Gerald, your bottom line, "H4831 is a great powder to begin a hand loading career with. So is the 30-06 and 180grn bullets." should be a sticky. Truer words were never spoken! A great advantage with H4831 is that all loads in any 30-06, seem accurate. Don't worry about whether your rifle likes it or not, it will. Some tell us not to load H4831 lighter than minimum loads shown in books. Before I had ever heard of this, I used H4831 extensively, with cast bullets in a 30-06. Some of my most accurate loads with the cast, was with about 43 grains of H4831. In the years when I followed Jack O'Connor's writings, he wrote that a healthy charge, (he gave it, but I won't repeat it) of H4831 in a 30-06 drove a 220 grain bullet very accurately, and fast, for its weight. He said he bought a box of the 220s, but had so much fun in shooting them that he shot them all, without keeping any for hunting. I tried his load and I think it was the most accurate load of any I had used, in my 30-06.
H4831 said: Yes, Eagleye knows I agree with him on the Norma 205! At the last gun show I was at I got a can of Norma MRP, the powder that superceded 205. I hadn't used it before, but it appears it will be the same loading as N205. Regarding the what lot of H4831, all my testing was done with the old WW2 surplus, which I still have some. When Hodgdon's brought out new H4831, in cannisters, they said the same loading information could be used, as with the old surplus. Here are the results of my testing of the old and new, in a Sako 270. Easy to see why they would say to use the same data, according to my test, the new must be slower, as velocity was a fair bit slower. A powder company saving their butt, again! http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q65/H4831/48.jpg
bl*emike807 said: Thanks very much to all of you - good information here, and a bit of unexpected history. I've got 20 rounds loaded up, and Im looking forward to trying them. 55gr of H4831 pushing a 180 gr Hornady Jacketed Round Nose. Should be fun, with a (hopefully) minimal chance of self-explosion. The next step will be trying to same in my Mosin Nagant M91/30, when the gorramn stock's finish dries (damn humidity) - different powder load of course. I found one that called for 51 grains of H4831. Just need to get my dies in the mail (any day now). Thanks again -Mike
B*gUglyMan said: Trade the unopened can of H4831 to someone for IMR 4350. H4831 is what I use in my 416 Rigby (and have used it in the 300WM as well) but it is a bit slow for the 30-06. It will still work, but there are other hammers that get that job done better.